- Punching to penetrate rather than to ‘pop’
People often talk about a ‘proper’ way to punch. Usually they say it must bounce or pop. The reason is such strikes are difficult to parry, they move fast, go into openings more easily and they deliver power that disperses quickly.
This is especially seen in boxing, particularly the newer era. The reasons are obvious as I stated above, and many attribute striking being more free and popping as a form of evolution.
I however would say that it’s more a result of conforming to changes in the rules of boxing more than ‘evolution’ in the truest sense.
We see “stiff” jabs and ‘stiff’ punching as seen in old school pre-Queensberry boxing and other old school boxing is often seen as a relic of the past, of a time people didn’t know any better. However, clinching was far more acceptable in those days of boxing. This is not a casual correlation.
A ‘stiff’ jab, or a ‘stuff’ punching can easily be turned into a frame to prevent the clinch or initiate it far easier. It also more easily takes the balance of your opponent. Modern day boxing penalizes clinching far more than it did in the past, breaks clinches up, and allows less strikes to be thrown in the clinch. As a result the ‘popping’ style of striking makes more sense. But that does not make it better.
Muay Thai used to punch ‘stiff’ like karate did, but integrated boxing methods of training, and for good reason. As I said, the pop tends to be far harder to defend against, it’s good to know and I try to do it as well.
But even today people mention how traditional Muay thai folks tend to be ‘stiff’ in how they strike, less snapping and free. Nak Muay would often transition between different ways of punching, depending on the goal.
Also worth nothing, loss of balance or staggering is counted against a Thai boxer by the judges, while in western boxing it’s far less penalized. Balance and showing one has it is important, thus strikes that steal balance have a place in Muay Thai more than boxing.
Like Thai boxers I like to use both ‘pop’ and ‘stiff/penetrative’ strikes. The thing is though, I noticed other Kickboxers in the west are thrown off when I throw ‘stiff’ punches, because when I strike and they move into counter, they often remark how I have a frame infront, and I control distance and clinches like that.
And that is from an Okinawan approach to striking. Because before touch contact sparring, Okinawan karate tended to be very focussed in close quarters, the clinch. They fought outside more than traditional japanese jui jitsu, Sumo or other arts in japan outside of Okinawa. But karate lived in the clinch, for one to initiate it or prevent it.
And the punching methods of Okinawan karate often hone in on that.
Single penetrating kicks.
2.Open hand strikes.
Sparring for Okinawan and Japanese karate often is indestiguishable because the ruleset is the same, and thus the same tactics are used, such as repeated kicks with the same leg with combinations, often hitting with the top of the foot or the ball.
But Okinawan karate traditionally did not do that. They had single very focussed power kicks. Often they used the toes or front of the ankle as a target.
The japanese karate kick focusses on speed and repitition, while the Okinawan karate kick often rotates the hip in a very unique way, in a method even Muay thai does not do, which focuses on a penetrative precise strike.
I personally prefer to do my round house kicks like Kyokushin and Muay Thai, but I use the Okinawan method for the front kick, and I will often use my toes to penetrate. My hip rotation is the Okinawan method more than the ‘bridge’ used in Muay Thai.
I don’t kick in big combinations and quick succession, I’m not good at it. But I will throw single powerful kicks. That is how Okinawan karate largely uses it’s kicks as well. I know Bas Rutten often says “If you’re going to kick, kick good!” and that’s my view too.
Hard to do these in Kickboxing since gloves are a thing, but I’ll put it here anyway since it can be done with MMA gloves and helps general striking.
So again, if you don’t see this in most Okinawan karate schools, it’s largely due to the japanese influence on Okinawan karate. But some Okinawan schools emphasize palm strikes and open hand strikes.
I believe the GIF image above is of a top Goju teacher. I won’t bother spelling his name because I will spell it wrong. Morio Higoanna? Eh I tried.
But needless to say there are many relaxed open hand strikes. Simple enough. But it’s rather the ‘order’ of it that is unique. See in boxing and kickboxing straights are dominant, faster and work more to set up hooks.
With open palm strikes however, straight strikes are kind of akward, and cannot be spammed out like they are with closed fist strikes. One almost has to wait for the opportunity to appear. But curved strikes with open hand can easily be spammed out and setup the straight strikes. Of course someone with good boxing can counter you with a straight, but that’s integrating closed fist strikes into it. And in a real ideal world a person would use both open hand and closed fist strikes as both are effective. The open hands however allow hitting hard targets with less risk to injury while the closed fist strikes are the ones that sneak through guards the best.
I mix them up, and it was first on the burner for me with Karate.
Improved hand fighting and close quarters striking.
I mentioned before that Okinawan karate was originally primarily focussed on close quarters fighting. The Japanese that brought it to the mainland saw it as an outside fighting system focussed on strikes, but that was only because Karate simply had more outside fighting than traditional japanese martial arts, not that it was primarily an outside fighting art. That isn’t to say Okinawan karate can’t produce people very good on the outside. But it was primarily designed for close combat.
But aliveness training is a thing, and the only drill with resistence done in Okinawan karate is the touch contact kumite, so many Okinawan karateka have no idea how to fight in close, only through some bunkai or drills they do, which perhaps gives them the perception of being good at fighting on the inside.
However there are still many Okinawan practioners that will do standing grappling to initiate take downs, will do close quarters striking, and will do entries into clinch. And if that training is done along with some supplementary wrestling skills, karate can be a formidable close quarters fighting system.
Especially regarding dirty boxing. Lots of the Kakie drills that resemble sticky hands and push hands help with ‘hand fighting’ regarding close quarters striking. You get a grip on your opponents arm, head, or uniform to deliver strikes. Or your parrying their strikes and doing your own.
More important is when they try to control your limbs, you can free them to strike or turn it around and control them.
Old school boxing did this plenty, though different because of the gloves. In boxing we call is ‘fighting in the pocket’ where they both shell up and throw punches at eachother rolling, or they will palm at the other guys hand to create openings and change or improve their own hand position.
No it does not look like sticky hands, because most sticky hands/kakie drills don’t have an element of distance or broken rhythm, while boxing often does.
Yet the Kakie/sticking drills can often be modified to create an element of distance, or even if one does not do that, still teaches a sensitivity and ability to fight for position with the hands to setup strikes and initiate clinches.
“LOL ADEEL YOU STUPID TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST! THAT STUFF DOESN’T WORK! YOU’RE FULL OF SHIT!”
Well here is a video that explores this. Ramsey Dewey himself may not have the best record, but he’s trained fighters that did decent in MMA, and even has a few successful amateur and pro-boxers. He talks in many videos how he uses hand fighting with many of his strikers. Here he talks about how TMA trapping can be worked into combat sports.
Foot work.
Okinawan karate greatly informs how I move, my posture, my footwork.
Now there are three ways people move. Either they are stilted and move on the heel. They move with the whole foot. Or they bounce on the balls of their feet.
Around the world most people say bouncing on the balls is the best, and other methods are ‘wrong’
I won’t explain stomping with the heel, but I will defend using the whole foot to move. Often people don’t like this either, they want everyone to look light on their feet like boxers.
And you know what? I get it. Boxers move smooth, fast, fucking hard to hit.
But is it ‘wrong’ to move with the whole foot and not focused on the balls? If so why are there many old school boxers that moved with the whole foot instead of just bouncing on the balls of their feet like Ali or modern boxers?
The answer usually is they didn’t know any better back then and just made it work, and that sport science and boxing has evolved.
Sport science certainly, but has boxing evolved or just changed focus?
I once again bring up Muay Thai and Kyokushin. If someone watches the UFC they see a kyokushin or Muay thai guy and say they move flat footed, the footwork is ‘bad’.
But as I mentioned before, keeping balance when struck is important in those sports, even covered you can lose in the eyes of the judges if your balance is compromised. And also as I said before, the clinch is more of a factor in old school boxing and Muay Thai.
People who fight from such stances throw big heavy shots, and often frame a great deal to prevent take downs and clinches, or to intitiate them.
Joe Frasier and George Foreman both are seen as ‘flat footed’ when they really moved on the whole foot. Now people say Ali made mincemeat out of them, certainly he did for Foreman.
But Fraiser? Watch those fights. Ali won two out of three fights with Frasier. But in all of them, Frasier landed big, and often Ali seemed like he could barely walk afterwards. It suited Frasers style to fight like this, which was to get inside and get dirty, to be stable.
Now add leg kicks and checks to that equation, and then there is a need to base out on the planted foot to present the shin to block. It becomes much harder to bounce around lightly. I’m going to make a shorter separate post about how leg kicks and round kicks in general cut off people who move plenty and hit lots of angles. Well this is one of them, and the solution is to move subtle and ‘sunk’
If the check is not used, there is a ‘sink’ into the strike (The same one Uriah Hall used that caused Chris Weidmans leg to break) which is a kyokushin and Okinawan karate method to defend against leg and calf kicks. This isn’t easily done if someone is light and bouncing.
The reason we favor boxing style bouncing is boxing is one of the most useful martial arts in the world, and it’s the most culturally prevalent, so it’s our immediate orthodoxy. But it isn’t the only way, and it moves like that specifically because leg and body kicking isn’t allowed. The moment such tactics enter a striking sport, the posture and movement is much more ‘sunk’.
When you realize this, you’ll see the way those old Okinawan men had a point when moving like that, it isn’t just outdated shit.
What's the deal with Adeel? 